About fuel costs for the Tesla roadster, Nissan Leaf, Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell and Toyota Prius.

To go 100 miles
- Prius uses 2 gallons of gas. At 3 USD per gallon the total cost is 6 USD.
- Tesla roadster uses 22kWh. At 10 cents per kWh total cost is 2.2 USD.
- Nissan Leaf uses 24 kWh. At 10 cents per kWh total cost is 2.4 USD.
- The Equinox FC uses (4.2/168)*100 = 2.5 kg hydrogen. Made from electrolysis of water you need minimum 50 kWh (more likely 60 kWh) to produce 1 kg of compressed hydrogen. If we completely ignore the very substantial capital cost involved with building a hydrogen gas stations and also ignore the very substantial costs of maintaining the hydrogen producing equipment at the hydrogen gas station the total cost of driving a Equinox FC 100 miles is (2.5*50*0.1) = 12.5 USD.

For elaborating comments see my blog at
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/09/automakers-fcv-20090909.html#more

Wikipedia reports that the Equinox full cell last 50,000 miles before it needs to be replaced. That is about a good year in a Taxi driving setting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Equinox#Fuel_Cell

Mark Van’s comment above is most amusing saying “that they (fuel cell vehicles) are not one or two decades away but are doable today.”

It would be curious to see how much less fuel would be used if the vehicle chosen had a much lower coefficient of drag (Cd), smaller cross sectional area, and lower weight. The decision to use the Equinox was based on the attempted greening of SUV and cross-overs. Perhaps they've learned otherwise since then; we're still looking for an affordable mileage champ from them. Hopefully, there's something under wraps that they will unveil shortly.

Oh, and why are the worlds auto makers continuing with this? Just fluff and PR?

Bought out by Big oil?

Why would GM and Honda etc. want impractical H2 EVs?

Kelly:

I hate to say it, but we may have to rely on other countries with large population and not enough liquid fuel sources (China and India +) to further develop and mass produce lower price PHEVs and BEVs.

BYD may be one of many future Asian electified vehicle producers.

Can our govenments effectively block importation of lower cost PHEVs and BEVs with about the same methods used to block efficient diesel cars?

A common sense e-car with standardized e-ancillary units does not have to cost $40+K. BYD (and Tata +++) can do it for half that price.

Magna International may produce low cost PHEVs and BEVs within 3 to 4 years.

Someday(another 10-20 yrs) fuel cell EV's may be viable, but not in the near future. E. Sec. Chu is right.

Most of the world's population is urban and travels less than 60 km/day. 100 million Chinese travel by 20 km/charge lead-acid electric bicycles.

The marketing of planned obsolesence, thousand part drivetrains, 3,000 mile maintenance, and over half-a-year's salary prices - besides pollution - may slowly fade with battery EV's.

Tesla's Model S will go for $50,000 and it is made in the USA. Price will drop as more units are made. They could make a version with only 100 mile electric range and a 100 lb range extender generator in it for even less money again. This is within like 5 years down the road. There's no way fuel cell cars can compete with this, and there's no way Big Oil can stop it; the technology's too simple and too applicable to everyday commuters' needs. All we need is someone to invest in mass production to make BEV's and PHEV's competitive and get them over the hump and the rest will be a market slide pushing the idea of FCV's out to the sidelines; that's happening right now. All GM is interested in doing is playing with taxpayers' money.

"And why would the US Gov block the mfg or importation of lower cost PHEVs and BEVs? That’s silly."

Special interest(auto/oil..) lobbies and the laws they buy - or do we see 50, 60, and 70 mpg Euro diesels, Tata Nanos, etc filling US highways?

Diesels (such as VW TDI) are not blocked unless they do not meet EPA requirements.

Tata Nanos, Smarts, Aleros, Aveos, Yugos etc are not filling US highways because buyers are not buying them and driving them on the highways.

Not because of evil doers.

But Mannstein, as pointed out here, FCV's don't have:
• fuel cell durability
• hydrogen storage
• hydrogen distribution infrastructure
• environmentally friendly methods of H2 production

In addition to lacking economies of scale mass production to drop prices.

BEV's and PHEV's do have:
• durability
• adequate energy storage for most users
• an existing energy production system (night time non-peak electricity generation)
• an existing energy distribution infrastructure (wall outlets in your garage)

And once they become mass produced, they will have cost on their side as well. That's everything you need! The same cannot be said for FCV's.

wintermane2000,

"So we have cost and durability.."

What are you writing about? The EV fuel cell prices are somewhere between $200,000 and $1,000,000!! None of the car firms have dare admitted fuel cell vehicle prices!!!

After decades, it's nice that recent GM platinum use fell from 80 to 30 grams/stack, which saves about $3,000? Please send the remaining $500,000 sticker price to my account.

We're dealing with GM's promises (durability, etc) for six years from now, if they're around.

After you mail the half million dollar check - try driving back home in a 1997 or later GM EV1. Perhaps it's time to give up on some promises and firms.

The company below sells economical liquid (methanol) fuel cell powered materials handlers:

http://www.oorjaprotonics.com/index.php

One fuel cell horse-power sells for over $16,000.

At that rate, 100 hp would be over $1,600,000.

Even if auto fuel cells were someday one tenth that price - who is going to pay $160,000 for a car engine?

There are several reasons GM is wasting our time with their fuel cell cars.

First, GM knows plug-in hybrids are superior, advantageous, beneficial, even lifesaving, and therefore that technology must be stopped. GM does this by cancelling affordably priced Saturn hybrids while with much fanfare promotes $40,000 Chevy Volt which only the 1% can afford. Two birds with one stone.

Next, GM promotes hydrogen as an alternate fuel knowing it will be 'proprietary' or impractical to generate and store at household level. (Note that GM did not begin building fuel cell prototypes with a battery back up for regenerative braking).

Those batteries, whether in a plug-in hybrid or 3x that size for a full battery electric, are a perfect technological match with rooftop photovoltiac solar panels which give households the unforgivable choice of whether to drive or cut utility bills, not to mention the means to survive an emergency grid failure. No, GM wants no part of that, nor do their cohorts in the private energy utility industry, the insurance industry and the financial sector.

Speaking of private energy utilities, President Roosevelt in 1935, enacted the Rural Electrification Act in order to bring electricity to rural farming communities because private industry refused. Republican leaders nationwide hated Roosevelt for this, called him socialist, anti-American, un-christian evil and said government couldn't do it right.

Private utilities suddenly gained new interest in opening up and serving these new markets, but it was too late, cooperatives were established and the price of stringing a mile of electric line dropped from around $1700 to $600. In other words, the government could and did do it right.

Farms gained lights, electric appliances, phone line, running water, indoor plumbing and septic tanks systems. The cost of cooperative electricity is still about 17% less than private utilities, but their executives are superior human beings protecting freedom and liberty and have country club priviledges to prove it. "The rest are all white trash overpopulation getting sick and burdening the healthcare system. Harrumph! What the US needs is a good war!" topic of discussion at corporate monthly board meetings nationwide.

I believe, ToppaTom, that GM practices "Planned Obsolescence" that regularly results in unavoidable traffic accidents and fatalities, and that its executive directors are inhumane elitists using their position to establish a "Monopoly" whereby citizens have no choice but to drive cars for every purpose, GM cars, Ford, imported cars, it doesn't matter as long as the addiction to driving continues.

Automobile-related business interests also pay for the right-wing radio pundits that treacherously lie and otherwise in obviously unpatriotic fashion deceive their listeners daily with lines like "My friends, the liberals and democrats are closet socialists who want the government to become aethiest granny killers."

President Franklin Delanor Roosevelt was loved by most US citizens and hated by Big Business republicans who had only contempt for everyone outside their class, especially your kind, ToppaTom. When pigs like Rush Limbaugh calls you "My friend", don't believe it.