1200 kg of H2 per day, and the efficient use of resources are the more important things to focus on, sd.

Check out this link for more info in tri-gen:
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2016/12/f34/fcto_fountain_valley_success_story.pdf

dursan:
What are you talking about?

' Molten Carbonate Fuel Cell (MCFC)
Molten carbonate fuel cells use an electrolyte composed of a molten carbonate salt mixture suspended in a porous, chemically inert matrix, and operate at high temperatures - approximatelly 1,200ºF. They require carbon dioxide and oxygen to be delivered to the cathode. To date, MCFCs have been operated on hydrogen, carbon monoxide, natural gas, propane, landfill gas, marine diesel, and simulated coal gasification products. 10 kW to 2 MW MCFCs have been tested on a variety of fuels and are primarily targeted to electric utility applications.

Solid Oxide Fuel Cell (SOFC)
Solid oxide fuel cells use a hard, non-porous ceramic compound as the electrolyte, and operate at very high temperatures - around 1800°F. One type of SOFC uses an array of meter-long tubes, and other variations include a compressed disc that resembles the top of a soup can. Tubular SOFC designs are closer to commercialization and are being produced by several companies around the world. SOFCs are suitable for stationary applications as well as for auxiliary power units (APUs) used in vehicles to power electronics.'
https://www.azocleantech.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=79

And they state that the methane is from biological sources so there is no need to presume anything.

Tri-Gen will generate approximately 2.35 MW of electricity and 1.2 tons of hydrogen per day

So at 33 kWh/kg this comes to an equivalent hydrogen power of 1.65 megawatts, total useful power about 4 MW.  The carbonate fuel cell is being used as both an electric generator and a chemical reformer.

It is not clear from the article how the waste is being converted to electric power and/or hydrogen.

It's being gasified (possibly with waste heat from the MCFC, maybe autothermally) and then the gas is processed further.  I'd bet that hydrogen is being extracted from gas before the MCFC.

This may not please a few anti-hydrogen posters

There's not nearly enough biomass to run the economy, or even just vehicular transport, on these things.  It's greenwashing, Harvey.

Some more details here:

'FuelCell Energy’s distributed hydrogen solution co-produces hydrogen and clean power from methane based fuels such as renewable biogas. The methane is reformed to hydrogen using water and heat produced by the fuel cell, resulting in clean hydrogen production without water consumption. In January 2016 the California Air Resources Board (CARB) certified a prospective pathway for hydrogen production with this technology fueled by biogas. CARB's team performed a complete Life Cycle Analysis (LCA) on the system and determined that it has a negative carbon intensity, as the power and hydrogen generation process is carbon-neutral due to the use of renewable biogas and the fuel cell waste heat is used to feed the internal reformation reactions.'

As for the accusation that this is greenwashing due to the limited nature of the biomass resource, around 10% of California's light vehicle fleet can be run just on this currently wasted resource, so its not being a total solution is unduly harsh.

Were biomass the only potential source of hydrogen then maybe the criticism would have some merit, but this forum is replete with other rapidly advancing hydrogen production technologies from renewables or with carbon capture.

Green H2 production technologies are advancing at a fast rate, from various feed stocks or sources, from reduced non-renewables to fully renewables.

Since H2 can be stored and easily transported, intermittent solar energy may become one of the main clean long term source. Wind energy is another clean RE source possibility.

There's no combustion. The efficiency must be pretty high because the fuel cell is probably 60% efficient, then the waste energy from that is used to produce hydrogen.

It is also easier to capture CO2 from a fuel cell process than a gas turbine process.

HarveyD

Where did you get the idea that hydrogen is easy to store and/or transport. On of the major problems with hydrogen is that has an extremely low density even as a liquid and the boiling point is -253 C or about -423 F. It is usually compressed to about 7000 PSI which is not easy. It also causes hydrogen embrittlement in many metals further complicating storage or transport. In adition, it forms an explosive mixture with air in a range of 4% to 74% hydrogen.

@sd,
Pipeline system can be used to transport Hydrogen just like Natural Gas. Natural Gas reservoirs can be used to store vast quantity of Hydrogen, enough for an entire season or more. One just need to imagine replacing Nature Gas with Hydrogen and it will be very easy.

I said last year to commercialize gas-hydrogen cars where you pick up cheap hydrogen gas while you can but you are never caught empty because there is gas if there is no hydrogen available. Also a cylinder mix of hydrogen gas with some gasoline increase gas burning rate and speed of flame reducing engine drag and wasted heat true the cylinder head. It's not because i own and drive a small ice caer that i really likeit, so commercialize rightaway a cheaper better car made in zimbawe builded with recycled waste metal at 10 000$ new.

Should read Flamibility range for:
LPG-air mixtures is from 5.0% to 15.6% of NG and from 1.84% to 8.54% of LPG by volume respectively.

While N.G. (methane) contains hydrogen as a component,

:According to 2014 CODATA the Bohr radius has a value of5.2917721067(12)×10−11 m

H is a very small molecule and will find or 'leak its way through smaller fissures or pathways at a much higher rate.

A useful comparison chart for visualising can be viewed.

https://sciencenotes.org/periodic-table-chart-element-sizes/

Seriously, burning BioGas is a renewable energy source and removes a potent greenhouse gas from the air (according to a 2013 United Nations report, Livestock are responsible for 14.5% of human-induced greenhouse gas emissions, with beef and dairy production accounting for the bulk of it) and California ranks #1 among U.S. states for methane production potential from biogas sources. Reference: https://www.americanbiogascouncil.org/State%20Profiles/ABCBiogasStateProfile_CA.pdf.
So we are only looking at 5% of the transportation fuel, i.e. 20% Class 8 trucks and the California Milk Producers Council will greatly appreciate the help Toyota will provide in reducing methane emissions from their dairy and livestock operations.

I'm not really concerned with the talk of greenwashing, if it is or isn't, it's probably replacing something that was worse, before it was implemented.

I really try and use all our resources in the most responsible ways: Socially, economically realistically, and environmentally.

I'm not a huge fan of nuclear, but i see if it's done right its a decent carbon neutral fuel.

Having said that, these "evil" private corporations that may or may not sell oil derived products are no more or less evil than any other company I have seen.

We are on the verge of significantly cheaper/ more efficient hydrogen. We have a way to reform it with very little waste. Based on our current state of affairs, this turns hydrogen into a very low carbon fuel, possibly beating BEVs on the typical grid here in the states. The notion of this probably doesn't rest well with most of you on here.

Having said all that.

Efficiency doesn't matter. This is a waste stream that would likely go unused if it were not for Toyota, could there be better options? Sure, but they didn't present themselves.

Perhaps these new hydrogen catalysts can be used to even greater effect for waste production.

If we gain something, where we would have otherwise gained nothing i don't think we should be too critical. Humans generate tons of waste, if we can use that to displace other resources, while cleaning it up, i think it's a general win.

I don't know the fiscal details, but i imagine, if this is either a for loss prototype, or even a revenue stream for Toyota they will benefit from this some how.