Electric-Car Fans Rally Around the Volt

The volt The Volt is far from being commercially viable, a government task force found. Supporters of the car say that’s shortsighted.

Electric car supporters are rising to defend General Motors’ development of the Chevy Volt after the Obama Administration’s automotive task force proclaimed that the car was probably too expensive to be commercially successful in the near future.

G.M. is hoping to launch the Volt in late 2010 with a price tag of about $40,000.

“While the Volt holds promise, it is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable,” the task force noted in its recent assessment of GM’s restructuring plans. About $750 million is needed for near-term Volt development, according to the company.

Advocacy groups argue the task force’s assessment is shortsighted and worry that the Volt project may land in the scrap heap as G.M. rolls toward bankruptcy. Financial aid for such projects has been put on hold as G.M. and Chrysler struggle to come up with business plans that regulators will embrace.

“Any new technology like the Chevy Volt takes time to become profitable,” said Jay Friedland, the legislative director for Plug-In America, an electric-car advocacy group. “The Toyota Prius took over five years to reach break-even and has gone on to be a wild success.”

Electric car proponents at The California Cars Initiative believe the task force was unduly influenced by “plug-in skeptics” at the Boston Consulting Group, which is under government contract to provide input on the prospects for G.M. and Chrysler.

“Whatever B.C.G.’s expertise on the auto industry in general, we are concerned that in its understanding of future pathways, it offers a flawed analysis and predictions based on business-as-usual,” notes a posting on the California Car Initiative’s Web site.

The group pointed to a B.C.G. report titled, “The Comeback of the Electric Car? How Real, How Soon, and What Must Happen Next,” which concludes the costs of creating an automotive market dominated by electric and hybrid cars are prohibitively high for the foreseeable future – as high as $49 billion for Europe alone (along with another $21 billion for battery-charging infrastructure).

Still, the word from on high is that the Volt will make it to the finish line.

“Volt will survive and prosper,” G.M.’s vice chairman of product development, Robert Lutz, reportedly told Volt enthusiasts at the Web site GM-Volt.com. “We know the numbers better than the Government … we furnished them! First-generation technology is expensive, but you can’t have a second generation without a first generation.”

During his campaign, President Obama said he would work to put one million plug-in hybrids on American roads by 2015. Currently there are only about 1,500 500 plug-in hybrids and 500 1,500 pure electric cars, according to Plug-In America.

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Goodbye GM. Why pay $40K for a GM volt… which will look nothing more than a Malibu anyway and only get 40 miles before the gasoline engine kicks in. Even this article keeps showing the old futuristic version model which GM said can’t be done. For $50k you can get a Tesla sedan which will get hundreds of miles strictly on electric.

I don’t see how the Telsa Sedan would be an advantage. You lose the flexibility of the hybrid being able to fuel up nearly instantaneously at a gas station, and pay an additional $10k for that loss.

Perhaps they should turbo charge the Volt or Telsa to run more like this electric powered Datsun drag racer:

//www.buildbabybuild.com/uncategorized/bmw-audi-porsche-ferrari-corvette-move-over-electric-datsun-owns-the-track

American’s love a hot rod.

It looks nothing like a Malibu. The old version can’t be done because its not that aerodynamic. Yeah, go buy a 59k Tesla that can go 200 miles….then your screwed, sure go park and get a hotel and charge it for 8 hours….then go another 200 miles, great for long trips i’m sure.

you kiddin me? dont say goodbye to GM just because they made a mistake.. give them a chance and they will come out with the most fuel effiecient car on the market….just you wait!!

Mr Goodbye:

Seems as if you know next to nothing about the Volt or electric cars in general based on your ignorant comments. Most Americans commute less than 40 miles daily, so that most days they would consume practically NO combustible fuel, na d not pollute the environment while driving or idling. The fuel engine on the Volt is used to run the generator to recharge the battery when a trip exceeds 40 miles, and it’s rage on a full tank is around 400 miles. It is also flex so that future biomass fuels such as cellulosic ethanol, methanol can be used (no oil). Also maintenance on these (no oil changes to speak of) etc will cost much less than an internal combution propelled car. Learn your facts before you post please.

Re: “…then go another 200 miles, great for long trips i’m sure.”

Sure, if you need to make lots of long trips in a car, and can only afford to have one car, then probably a Tesla’s not for you. But I seldom make trips longer than 80-100 miles, and have a second vehicle I could use for the few longer ones. A Tesla or other electric with similar range would suit me just fine…

The problem with the Volt, though, is that it’s just an incredibly ugly car.

I don’t get why you guys have to fight over the Tesla vs the Volt. There’s plenty of room in the market for both. Some people can only have one car so they want the Volt. Others have another car and the Tesla will do fine for them. Both of them are plug-ins which basically achieve the same objective. No need to fight one over the other. If we want plug-ins to be rapidly adopted we will have to work together to promote both types.

As usual, the brainless One sitting in the White House is full of it. This time it isn’t “How-did-this-moron-get-out-of-high-school” unbelievable ignorances like the 57 state nation or the “Austrian languge” which Obama admittedly can’t speak (nor can anyone else). This time it’s Obama’s brainless comments in which, within the very same paragraph, he both proclaimed that GM was behind in high tech green technologies which he foolishly proclaims the road to commercial salvation, and then blasts the Volt as
a project incapable of saving GM. OK, Oh Brainless One, spouter of endless lies and idiocies, explain how your dream of one million electrics on the road by 2015 has any significance? Those cars will reduce oil demand at most by about 1/5th of one percent. Do the simple math, Obama (ho,ho) and learn just how stupid thou really art. You mean to say that this buffoon is the best the Dems could come up with?

Goodbye GM is right, they h ad an electric car called the EV1 what happened to it? It was able to get 90 miles per charge and they were all destroyed. Government bailout yea right I would let them crash and burn. There’s an interesting movie out there called “Who killed the electric car” you should watch it. Ah GM it’s the end of the world as you know it and I feel fine! :) Maybe had they continued to develop that technology it would be less expensive today and they wouldn’t be asking for a bailout they would have made a killing when gas was up to $5.00 a gallon. Short sighted company with a CEO that should have been fired long ago. They had the technology in their hands and they destroyed it. Just think they may have a rapid charging option today. People are scared that they’ll get stuck and have no way of charging the batteries, hey I have an idea why not build a wind turbine on the roof that way as you drive the turbine spins and charges the battery.

Electric drive performance. April 17, 2009 · 3:47 pm

1. @ James. It’s called aerodynamics. You must think an F-16 fighter jet is hideous, then.

2. Shouldn’t the article above have been placed in the muscle car section, not the weenie tree hugger section?:

“The Chevy Volt feels “particularly muscular” up to about 30 mph, CNN reports, though its actual zero-to-sixty time is “about average for a modern car.”

//usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090415-First-Drive-sort-of-2011-Chevy-Volt

Star Trek inspired comments by the vice-chairman aside, how well the Volt will do will be entirely based on two things:

1. people’s desire for electric over gas cars

2. the viability of GM as a company.

I see the second point as easily over-riding the first unless GM can get back to the point where people EXPECT them, as a company, to survive as a matter of course. That… may take some doing on GMs part.

I also think that the task force is being short-sighted in their comments on the Volt. The high cost of manufacturing the Volt is exactly why the tax credits of $2500 for a vehicle with 4 kWh of battery capacity and $417 for every kWh over 4 (so that there is a $7500 credit for the Volt) were legislated. So the Volt would cost $32,500–not so much more than what people are reportedly paying for the Prius. And if the cap-and-trade legislation ever gets passed and we have to internalize the costs associated with GHG emission, then the all-electric capability of the Volt might be even more beneficial.

As for commenters who compare the Volt with the Tesla sedan, I agree with Jake that the two fill different niches in the automotive market. But more importantly, Tesla is having trouble getting the Roadster to customers who have already paid a deposit–they are far behind schedule. The sedan is barely in the prototype stage while the Volt has almost reached deployment status. So it’s definitely not a simple as choosing the Tesla sedan over the Volt.

Re “@ James. It’s called aerodynamics. You must think an F-16 fighter jet is hideous, then.”

No, it’s not aerodynamics. Take for instance the grossly-oversized wheels: a more aerodynamic design would use smaller ones, to minimize turbulence around the opening. Or the way the rear wheels stand out from the body, when aerodynamics would tuck them in closer, to produce more of a boat-tail.

Nor is the F-16 a particularly good example for automotive-speed aerodynamics, since it won’t even stay in the air at much less than about 180 kts. How about using a competition sailplane for comparison, instead?

Or if you don’t want to go into details, just compare the Volt to the Aptera :-)

I drive a Saturn SL1 that has over 300K miles on it. It is completely falling apart. Most people would have bought a new car years ago, but I didn’t because nothing worth buying was on the market.

I would buy a Volt for $40K. If I have to, I’ll buy a Tesla for $50K, but I’d rather buy the Volt.

I hope Kent B. is eaten alive by aligators.

Other than that – I agree with the gent who said that there is plenty of room in this world for both vehicles.

What I’ve heard is that Tesla Motors was able to R&d and produce a car that gets 300 miles per charge for the kind of money that the likes of GM spend on quarterly bonuses. The hell with the GMs. They are evidently conspiring with the oil companies otherwise why else would they destroy the EV1s. They didn’t just stop producing the EV1 they took every single working, running vehicle and destroyed it. They shouldn’t be forgiven for acts like that.

Point 1: Who’s gonna BUY this?

Sure, it can handle most commutes on the battery, but who commutes in this? It looks like an Epcot attraction. Sitting that low in traffic is no fun. It has no trunk (even the Prius has a serviceable trunk), no passenger seating (every other hybrid seats 4 or 5), and a windshield the size of a band-aid.

Point 2: I disagree with Sean @ 12. Structural factors (Infrastructure decisions and global shocks to fuel prices) are going to do far more to determine which fuel source wins out — this is not purely demand-driven; this is an “If you build it, they will come” situation. The demand-is-everything argument is the cop-out line from the auto industry and our lovely government. Of course people want gas cars — they don’t know where to get any other fuel. Give them the choice, and they’ll shift.

Writing from Panama where we could use a few more electric cars to reduce pollution.

Poor GM. They dallied so long before producing the Volt so that now the government will be telling them what to do. The only thing that inhibits initiative and creativity more that a behemoth like GM is a government committee.

We need electric buses to replace the diablos rojos, these are old, old US school buses that are the rusting backbone of public transportation in Panama. //www.abpanama.com will give you an insight into the state of transportation here. My point is that GM needs to make an electric world car and the only way they will get there is to make mistakes along the way…if the volt fails the next edition may just work…if they have not given away their right to fail, which I guess they did.

The Volt is a great idea and it looks magnificent, but they are out of their minds.!!! $40,000. I understand that with new technology the price is often hi but come on. Where is affordable. Here we go again, the average consumers are the ones you should be focusing on. This is probably one reasons why this vehicle is not considered to be viable. The US Car industry has already taken a big hit from all the large vehicle produced instead of smaller economical cars (price and size), I guess they haven’t learned their lesson totally. With this price I can buy a nice used C200 class Mercedes and still have money to afford Gas……uuuuuugh. Please wake up……

Does NYT’s own part stock in soon to be defunk GM ?

Sorry but I dont get it …by the time the Volt is in production, it will be outpaced by at least 4 different competitors hybrid vehicles that will offer as many option, be as fuel efficient, and most importantly will cost around 14k less!

Most people want a hybrid ‘world’ car thats simple to maintain, pleasing to the eye, gets super mileage and costs at most 21k ……..and my friends that leaves the Volt out in the cold.

Hyundai will in months offer 2 models that will leap frog toyota and honda by years – it will be based on a lithium POLYMER battery thats lighter, cheaper, and maintains charge many times longer than NiCad batteries and all at a price half that of Volt.

So what I see is that even if GM could sell its Volt platform vehicles in 2010 and at HALF its expected pricing, it would only leave it in with a pack of at least 4 other major players and all selling hybrid models much cheaper than GM.

And thats not even the half of it, can anyone say …GODZILLA ,,,its GODZILLA! in chinese ?, cause guys its coming and in 2011 the worlds largest lithium battery producer, with one of the worlds largest work forces, supported by a dictatorship where labor costs are almost nothing(no unions either)…. will be shipping over quality hybrid cars, that will cost around 18k, get super mileage, have great warranty and its all coming to a dealer near you!

GMs management (and the Unions) for decades acted with total impunity and absolute arrogance towards the consumer and real world economics. Even in their resurrected state, they dont have a prayer against toyota, honda, hyundai, and their worst nightmare, CHINA….

Electric Cars Are For Girls April 18, 2009 · 8:20 pm

Plug In America says there are only 500 plug in hybrids and 1500 electric cars on the road? Then they are driving by electric car conversions every day and not seeing them.

Just because it wasn’t electrified by a major automaker doesn’t mean it’s not an electric car!

The all-electric car will not catch on until you can swap out batteries in a few minutes (like in a flashlight) at a service station. There is an Israeli company doing that right now (Project Better Place). That way, you can re-charge at home for commuting, and re-battery on the road for trips.

Drove 32,000 miles, NO GAS, then they TOOK my car.
I miss my EV1.

10. @ Tony: “hey I have an idea why not build a wind turbine on the roof that way as you drive the turbine spins and charges the battery.”

Oh I really hope that’s sarcasm. (Law of conservation of energy)

What is the battery range of the Volt? 40 miles or 400 miles. Looking at the web it seem that the 400 miles is only with gasoline help. Is this true?